Crafting a Culture of Recognition with Kudos

Speaker 1: 0:05

Welcome back to another episode of the SaaScast. Here we're keeping it simple no jargon, no fluff, just straightforward insights from some of the biggest and heaviest hitters in the SaaS world. Our next guest is not just a tech leader. He's a visionary with a remarkable track record and Calgary deep into that ecosystem since the very early days. In fact, he even holds the distinction of being listed as a lead inventor on several international patents, one that I'm mesmerized the groundbreaking vinyl CD which was later acquired by a very big company. Today he's the driving force behind Kudos. They're a SaaS platform focusing in awards winning recognition programs. Their platform is making huge waves in the tech world. So, mooney, welcome to the SaaScast. It's great to have you on the show.

Speaker 2: 0:49

Thanks, jason, great to be here, man.

Speaker 1: 0:52

Awesome. So let's jump right in. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your company? Feel free to hop in the DeLorean and go back in time and then fast forward into the future Exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:04

I got to go find Doc first.

Speaker 1: 1:07

That would be awesome if we can have Doc on the show.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Exactly. To be honest, I started off in pre-med when I was back at university and realized very quickly that that really wasn't for me, there was something missing from the equation, and decided to get into urban design and then eventually architecture. So a series of opportunities and just overall interest got me involved in some marketing projects. This is back when early web days Everything marketing related got into early websites. Then, effectively, that company turned into a tech incubator. Then, from getting into technology and building out products and whatnot, I ended up exiting from that company and took a couple of years off, toured around the world, came back and ended up starting Kudos. Kudos is really an HR tech organization. We're focused on employee engagement, recognition, people analytics, that type of thing. Effectively, how do you build a sense of trust and community inside the workplace? That's really where we focus. If you do that, of course, then you can reduce things like turnover and have great morale and happy people. Then you get great productivity.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I've always said that people in culture separate great companies from unstoppable ones. Personally, I'm very passionate to learn more about your platform, your product and the impact it's having on both organizations that we work for, of course, the employees that help us build these incredible companies. How are we helping build them and building their vivid futures as they want to see it? Definitely a big challenge. There's been lots of players out there that have tried and attempted this in many different ways. You can see the clear leaders in many your platform. It's stuck. It's definitely got product markets set. Going back in time, many tech entrepreneurs have this past that involved several other attempts at building product, services and experiences. I want to go back to those days and say how did those early innovations spark that entrepreneurial drive that then, after touring the world for two years, you decided, yeah, I'm ready to dive back in again and go for round X, whatever it was I'm not sure how many it was. Yeah, just talk to me about that. How did it spark that and reconnect that drive with you?

Speaker 2: 3:52

Yeah, absolutely. The spark for entrepreneurship and just that overall drive for myself happened at a really young age, right, you know, even when I was growing up, I was figuring out ways to take existing products, repackage them or alter them in some way and then sell them to people for double. So I was notorious for doing that in like grade seven, with things like pens and sunglasses.

Speaker 1: 4:21

Yeah, so, bayes, dig how at grade seven you, can you target 50% profit margin? Yeah, I wonder what Grashenal was in your young mind there at that time Exactly, yeah, it was always. How far can I?

Speaker 2: 4:36

push it. So they say no, yeah, yeah, exactly Exactly, but I think you know it's interesting, so you know that happened. Well before any of the successes or failures or anything like that, it was just one of those things that you're curious about and you continue to grow from and I think that's really. It is that each thing that you do, each success or failure that you have, just gives you that next level of growth and understanding, and then you keep on building on that and, to be honest, there's a bit of an adrenaline thing that I think is connected to it. Right, like, I find it quite addictive in terms of maybe even a little bit obsessive at times, yeah, in terms of, you know, trying to understand the problems and unlock that next product.

Speaker 1: 5:24

So, yeah, I think it, you know, like my just building on that, like each time I've found a problem where I truly fell in love with it, and money was always secondary and I mean, yes, of course it's still like a close, very close to one and two position, but the more that I was toggling on the line of the problem and being immersed in it and just it brought out that drive, it brought out that passion. It also brought out like, how deep does this problem go? Where does it affect other things? And and so, yeah, whenever you feel that you know you've got something, and so you know, shifting our focus to the present, when you reconnected, you know, back from your tour of seeing the world and all these great experiences, you built Kudos. You've built it into an award-winning platform, that's, you know, giving people recognition and rewards for doing great things that are helping themselves and their company, and so you know we talked a little bit about how there's been many players there, and so I guess my direct question is how did you cut through the clutter?

Speaker 2: 6:34

Yeah, and I mean, you know the last keeps dramatically changed from when we first started, because you know, if I think back to you those days, you know the market was really, really cluttered with organizations that were reward centric. People really weren't focused on recognition and people were trying to understand. You know it was really a checkbox exercise. You have a rewards platform yes, no, like that type of thing and you know it wasn't really a need to have, I would say. And what we did is we kind of dove in on understanding what really makes people tick right. How do you motivate individuals? And there's this really interesting you know, balance that you got to ride in terms of rewards and recognition.

Speaker 2: 7:19

Each one has a different place for it, but recognition has got this really special feature to it, right, it's got the ability to intrinsically motivate individuals. And so that's where we double down is like how do you understand that unique aspect of recognition? How do you connect it back to the core values? And that's really where we hung our hats. So I think you know, for many, many years we did that and as we evolve, we realize we get into different types of worker types and different types of industries and there's all these different flavors that you have to work with, and the more that you understand those industries and flavors, the more that you can actually create a unique product that's actually going to make a difference inside the workplace. And that's really what we did. So I think today, now we focus on how do we connect with those individuals, whether it be through things like teams or Slack or Outlook or what have you, so that it's top of mind.

Speaker 1: 8:21

Do you think, like when you think, what the future holds for employee engagement and recognition? I think you know we see engagement as being one of the major KPIs. That, I would say, is that most people opts, as you know, okr dashboards or even some degree of OKR is in a blend of KPI. And so where do you see the future of employee engagement and recognition heading? I guess from two perspectives. One is you know a SaaS company who's building product services and experiences to achieve this, and then the other side, for your customers right and what they want, in blending those two together.

Speaker 2: 9:01

Yeah, that's a really interesting story and an interesting balance that you have to ride right. And I think you know when we start thinking about how do we go into organizations and you know, like connecting to the workflow right, connecting to what people do on a daily basis right and start delivering on the value that you know the productivity and performance of the organization is going to change, because it's paramount. Right now, everybody's talking about the pandemic fundamentally disrupted everything, right, people don't know how to measure these things and people know that you know culture and mental health is super huge, right, it's just top of mind, right, a lot of people are suffering, right.

Speaker 2: 9:45

So how do we fix those particular problems? How do we go in and ensure that, you know, from a technology perspective, we're connecting with individuals and, in terms of you know, where are we going to take it into the future? I think it's really about understanding some of the new technologies that are coming out, you know, and how that's going to impact things.

Speaker 1: 10:05

Yeah, I'm really excited to see all the, all the different use cases that can be implemented using. You know, I think most companies have on their mind is how do we leverage this, this computer, to do Lots of different things for us and teach it very, very quickly? Yeah, and so I guess you know let's talk about advice for entrepreneurs and and leaders within SAS. So you know, we spent a lot of time, you know, learning about your platform and how it benefits your. Your customers kind of want to flip it and see, like, well, you know, just give me one outcome of using your platform within your own company and it achieving something that you're not sure it would have achieved if they didn't have the platform to give them recognition and and obviously reward them for their superhero efforts.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yeah, for sure. Well, I think you talk specifically within our own organization.

Speaker 1: 11:00

Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's always good to hear the stories from inside, and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:05

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I mean, first of all, for us it's, it's part of our daily culture, right, like it's just in greened in what we do, because you know, we practice what we preach, yeah, and so I think you know, from that perspective, it it is initiated from the top down, right. That's one of those things where leadership really takes that accountability and says you know, how are we gonna connect with our people, right, right and, and by doing that, you start noticing these really interesting nuances whereby it doesn't matter if it's a little thing, doesn't matter if it's a big thing. There's always a recognition that comes into play. So it's not necessarily just about the milestones that you're hitting, it's about the everyday pieces, right, it's about how you're connecting to, to just valuing people in the organization.

Speaker 2: 11:50

So, yeah, I'd love to see is that you know, I'll come to the Kudos wall and it's not just like, hey, you killed it on this and this was exceptional at whatever, but you know, thank you, that was really helpful, like you know, I just really needed to talk someone to talk to type thing, right, and. And it's amazing what you see and it's on public walls and I'm just like this is wild, right, people just feel that sense of you know honesty and truth and just coming out and saying how they're feeling right, you don't get that day-to-day right, so and so like.

Speaker 1: 12:22

As you were kind of telling that, I got this sense of community, a sense of like we go to war together. We notice the small things and the big things, and I quite loved the micro moments you know example that you gave. It's not necessarily the big things and I couldn't agree more, especially in tech. Those carrots are long and like to chase them. It's hard. So you need to have those moments of of you know, gratitude for what you've been able to achieve, know that you've been recognized and that reward just keeps you going intrinsically till you get to the end. The end state that you actually want to be in.

Speaker 1: 13:01

That's a that's a beautiful and elegant, elegant story and I think you know that's some great advice for some emerging entrepreneurs is it's top starts, top down, and we're okay and conditioned to chase for very, very long periods of time. It's like Olympic athletes running With no food or water until they really need to stop. That doesn't necessarily mean it's the same thing that we're gonna see our team do, and these types of you know top-down initiatives that say we know that you know this is, this is hard and here's what we're gonna do to help is fantastic. And so I guess, when you think about you know, these entrepreneurs, what other opportunities and resources exist for them to really start to you know? Build a truly engaged culture that focuses on recognizing those micro moments and celebrating them outside of a platform. Of course, yeah, yeah, no. For sure?

Speaker 2: 13:53

Well, I think, first of all, what you know when you're, when you're building an organization in its early days, everybody's heads down, right. It's just you know you're, you're working hard, you know, hopefully you're, you're also kind of having your outlet, but often enough, people are just heads down and then it's obsessive, right. And I think it's it's moments like that where you just you really have to pause and you have to take the time and you have to Give yourself the break and you have to give everybody the break, really right, because that'll, that'll, that'll allow you to win the race, right, that's it's. It's not, it's not so much that it's a sprint, right, you know, everybody thinks it's a sprint at first, and then they're going like, like crazy, and then they burn out and it's it's a different world, right. And so I think there's this you know you have to have the drive, hundred percent. You have to have the drive like you don't want that to go away.

Speaker 2: 14:51

But you also need to create that sense of balance in your life, and I think recognition is a big part of that too, right, because it all of a sudden opens the door to this whole concept of gratitude. If you think about, you know, you know, when do you start thinking about recognizing an individual? Well, you don't really think about recognizing an individual unless you're thankful about them, right? You're actually, you're appreciative of what they've done or you're appreciative of them, and so you know, as soon as you start opening yourself to this whole mindset of gratitude, I think your life changes, right? I think entrepreneurs should do that, like to be able to be in a position to build a product or build a company. That's an amazing thing, right? Not everybody has that opportunity.

Speaker 1: 15:38

I was just going to pull up a visual reference here. It's my daily practice. I have to do it every day. I feel weird if I don't, and it's man, it's changed me. Like you're right, there's always things to be thankful for, and I actually, even just at this moment, right now, I had one that I was struggling with before. So an even better way to resolve some things is just through gratitude and taking that moment to be like well, at least I had someone to call to help me with that. And so I guess you know like practicing gratitude and you know, coming from a founder, how do you then extend that practice to your company? Right, and get them to embrace that too? Right? Have you guys tried that or seen anything that has worked in companies around that concept?

Speaker 2: 16:34

Yeah, I was actually just talking to a company about this just the other day and it's one of those things where, you know, I just established the fact that all of a sudden, you, if you have that sense of gratitude, that mindset, the next step is like if you start applying that to an individual. So think, as an example, think of a time where you, you know, maybe there was a peer of yours or a friend of yours and they weren't around anymore and all of a sudden you're like, oh man, like I missed them, or I wish they were here to work on this project, or whatever it might be. Those moments that we have as individuals are moments where we appreciate them. We don't recognize them. But I'm talking about appreciation here, right? So you're taking the whole concept of gratitude, you're building it into this whole next concept of appreciation, where you actually have this deep seated connection of value for another individual. And then, once you establish that, the next phase is really getting into this whole concept of recognition, which is, you know, you're truly recognizing people for performance at that point.

Speaker 2: 17:39

And so, you know, from my perspective, there's this interesting mindset that takes place, and I think, from a leader perspective, if you start walking yourself through those motions. It's amazing it just becomes part of your behavior. Then, right Now, I think the challenge is that you know people are busy, leaders are busy, often enough, right, and to go down and to jump into an app and you know, do this and do that. So we do our best to try and make that easy. But I always tell organizations that part of your culture and part of your whole concept of recognition should not just be the app, like say thanks to people, right, take care, when you're in a meeting, give a shout out right. When you have a town hall and everybody's there, give some kudos to people. Like it's just, it's one of those things you have to do.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Interesting, do you find like a big portion of your business is, you know, not just building a great product and finding product market fit and getting it there faster than others for cheaper and more better experiences in the end. What about the stuff that we've been talking about? How do you get your clients to culturally look at this? You know differently and you know I'm sure you're learning at such a rapid pace in comparison to your clients, right, just because you can, you know, touch so many more organizations, and so what are some of the things I guess you've done to help disseminate and share that with your customers or even just with you know, people, ops, people who want to learn this, or entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2: 19:17

Absolutely Well, I think, with our clients. Specifically, we develop programming right, so programming around recognition, and so we've got our team who is kind of well versed in what to do, how to create the culture. What kind of campaigns do you run? How do you bring that sense of awareness? How do you get leadership buy-in and then we walk, you know, clients through that right In terms of enabling that type of a culture, and so, yeah, that's. We spend a good amount of time doing things like that and also, of course, building into the experience of the application right, ensuring that you're continuing to push that envelope in terms of how that app connects with the individual or the user, right. So okay.

Speaker 1: 20:01

And let's go to the hard stuff here. So companies that do this versus companies that don't do this or don't do it, as well, as a platform that's guided, has programming, you know, has the knowledge share of a team just immersed in this challenge every single day. You know what's that reason to believe. You tell others before and after.

Speaker 2: 20:27

Before and after. I mean I've worked with organizations where I've seen the Delta in terms of what people say, right.

Speaker 2: 20:34

So we're talking about sentiment analysis, whether it's a survey or whatever it might be, but when you can actually see that people feel different inside of an organization, that they're moving the dial, that you know prior to using Kudos as an example recognition might be the number one thing that people feel like they don't feel recognized inside of an organization, and the organization might be going, hey, what are you talking about? Like, we recognize people, we've got XYZ or whatever it might be. But you know, I think there's a lot of words between the lines in terms of what recognition actually is and what culture is and how it's connected back to recognition. And you know when you start seeing things like, you know the shift in turnover, when you start seeing the shift in, you know the number of connections between individuals, when you start seeing inclusion going up inside of an organization. Those are all signs, right. Those are real, true data points that you can point to.

Speaker 1: 21:34

It's interesting, yeah, and also in C how over boards and engagement platform and the recognition platform can actually help move those needles up is actually a pretty cool experience. Well, that's awesome, Mooney. Thank you so much for your time today. The back part of our conversation has got me thinking in many different directions around all these three areas and how we can all do better as leaders. So I'm sure a lot of our listeners are gonna be eager to stay connected, so what would be the best way for them to follow you on your journey and keep in touch with what's gonna happen next in your space?

Speaker 2: 22:12

Absolutely. For me, it's LinkedIn, so just look me up on LinkedIn and connect with me there.

Speaker 1: 22:17

And then, of course, if I'm a SaaS company that wants to up my game and employee engagement, recognition and rewards, where do I go to find out more?

Speaker 2: 22:30

To find out more about us. Just kudoscom. Yeah, perfect.

Speaker 1: 22:34

Yeah, amazing. Well, again, thank you so much, mooney, for your time, really appreciate it. We'll watch along on the sidelines cheering you on for your next round of growth, not only for yourself, but all your clients that are taking time to make everyone that helps build a company felt feel rewarded and felt recognized.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Thanks, Jason.